4 months ago
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James Cleverly tonight insisted the number of refugees who might come to Britain from Rwanda as part of the two countries' migrant deal would only be in 'single digits'.
The Home Secretary told a House of Lords committee that the numbers who might come from the east African nation to the UK was 'tiny'.
As he was quizzed about the detail of Britain's new treaty with Rwanda, Mr Cleverly stressed a reciprocity clause on refugees was 'not a novel clause'.
'This is similar to other clauses we have in other agreements and in those instances we are talking about literally single digits,' he told peers on the International Agreements Committee.
It came after Rishi Sunak had earlier insisted to a group of senior MPs that deportation flights to Rwanda would take off despite claims airlines are refusing to help.
But the Prime Minister again refused to commit to a firm date for meeting his pledge to 'stop the boats', as migrants continue to cross the Channel in small vessels.
James Cleverly insisted the number of refugees who might come to Britain from Rwanda as part of the two countries' migrant deal would only be in 'single digits'
The Home Secretary told a House of Lords committee that the numbers who might come from the east African nation to the UK was 'tiny'
The Government is currently pushing to get the delayed Rwanda deportation plan up and running following last month's Supreme Court block on the scheme.
The PM is pressing ahead with emergency legislation at Westminster in a bid to stave off future legal challenges to his plans to send asylum seekers to Africa.
He and Mr Cleverly have also struck a new treaty with Rwanda in a bid to get around the Supreme Court's ruling that it is not a safe destination for asylum seekers.
The Home Secretary was quizzed by Lord Kerr of Kinlochard about Article 19 of the new UK-Rwanda treaty, which states there should be arrangements to 'resettle a portion of Rwanda's most vulnerable refugees in the UK'.
Asked what represented a 'portion' of Rwanda's refugees, Mr Cleverly replied: 'It's not possible for us to speculate but, I think, reflecting on the similar agreements we have with other countries, the numbers tend to be - to all intents and purposes - tiny.'
Pressed again for a figure, the Home Secretary added: 'Tiny numbers, single digits of people.
'This is not a novel clause. This is similar to other clauses we have in other agreements and in those instances we are talking about literally single digits.'
Senior Home Office official Dan Hobbs, the department's director general of migration and borders, also told the committee: 'Under the original Memorandum of Understanding, part of the wider agreement was that Rwanda hosts something like 130,000 refugees from the region.
'These aren't Rwandan individuals, they aren't the individuals that are relocated under the treaty.
'And it may be, as we do with other countries where we have resettlement schemes, that if there is someone with particularly acute needs or specialist needs that could be better served in the UK, we would provide safe and legal route for that person who is recognised as a refugee to come to the UK.
'In the same way as we have worked with other organisations such as UNHCR to bring refugees from vulnerable areas such as Turkey, Lebanon and others.'
It came after Rishi Sunak had earlier insisted to a group of senior MPs that deportation flights to Rwanda would take off despite claims airlines are refusing to help
Asked by Home Affairs Committee chairman Dame Diana Johnson about the cost of the Rwanda scheme, the PM said: 'We disclose these things on an annual basis'
Mr Sunak was also challenged by Public Accounts Committee chairman Dame Meg Hillier on the 'secrecy' surrounding the costs of the migration agreement
Mr Cleverly's appearance before the committee came after Mr Sunak faced his own grilling on the troubled migration scheme by the House of Commons' Liaison Committee.
The PM told the gathering of senior MPs there was no 'firm date' set for him to meet his pledge to 'stop the boats'.
In response to a question from Commons' Home Affairs Committee chairman Dame Diana Johnson,he said: 'The first thing to say is we have made progress and that is that the numbers this year are down by a third, which is considerable progress.'
He added: 'There isn't a firm date on this because I've always been clear from the beginning. We will keep going until we do.'
Mr Sunak also declined to provide further details on how much the Government expected to pay Rwanda in total under the asylum deal that has already cost £290million before any flights have taken off.
And he refused to confirm or deny weekend reports that airlines are unwilling to undertake charter flights to east Africa over fears of a backlash from regular customers, citing 'commercial conversations'.
Right-wing Tories have urged Mr Sunak to fight the next general election on leaving an international human rights agreement if the Rwanda plan is blocked.
Danny Kruger, co-chairman of the New Conservatives group, said the party would not win the election without committing to quitting the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR).
Together with other Right-wing MPs, he abstained in last week's crunch vote on Mr Sunak's Rwanda plan, saying the draft legislation was 'unsatisfactory'.
Mr Kruger told the Inside Whitehall podcast: 'I don't think we will ever get back into power if we go out of power. And frankly, I think we're going to struggle at the next election without this [leaving the ECHR] as well.'
A host of Conservative MPs have long called for Britain to leave the ECHR. The convention established the European Court of Human Rights, which stopped flights carrying asylum seekers from taking off to Rwanda last year.
Challenged by Public Accounts Committee chairman Dame Meg Hillier this afternoon, the PM said he was 'confident' the Government would be able to deport asylum seekers to Rwanda despite reports that no airlines were willing to provide flights.
Asked whether any airlines had agreed to operate the flights, Mr Sunak replied: 'You wouldn't expect me to comment on commercial conversations that are necessarily private but I'm highly confident that we can operationalise the (Rwanda) Bill in all its aspects.'
Asked by Dame Diana about the cost of the Rwanda scheme, he said: 'We disclose these things on an annual basis.'
He added: 'It's absolutely right for what are commercially sensitive negotiations that there is a degree of ability for the Government to negotiate these things and then provide the appropriate level of transparency to Parliament which it is doing on an annual basis.'
Pressed on the 'secrecy' surrounding the costs, Mr Sunak said: 'It may well be that we want to have other conversations with other countries.
'But again it wouldn't be right to talk about these things if we're having private conversations with other countries about potential alternatives to add to our Rwanda policy.'
