Amb Wali to President Tinubu: You’re wrong in actions against Niger Republic

•●Says ECOWAS should swallow pride, negotiate with junta

From Aidoghie Paulinus, Abuja

Former Minister of Foreign Affairs, Ambassador Aminu Wali, has said that the  Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) Heads of State and Government erred in giving the junta in the Republic of Niger an ultimatum to relinquish power to ousted President Mohamed Bazoum without proper consultations with the various countries.

In this exclusive interview with Sunday Sun, the former Nigerian Permanent Representative, Permanent Mission of Nigeria to the United Nations, New York, United States, explained that ECOWAS cannot even go to war in Niger unless it is sanctioned by the United Nations.

The former Nigerian Ambassador to the People’s Republic of China who x-rayed the relationship between Niger and Nigeria, revealed that the two countries are one family, revealing that the wife of the head of the junta rule in the Republic of Niger, General Abdourahamane Tchiani, is even an indigene of Kangiwa in Kebbi State.

Wali pointed out that war with Niger will be a proxy war and advised ECOWAS to swallow its pride and negotiate with the junta.

The first Deputy National Chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) who also dwelt on the state of the nation, stated that in the history of political development, as far as party politics is concerned, there has never been a time that Nigeria was looted as much as the last eight years under Muhammadu Buhari.

What is your take on the Niger crisis and steps President Bola Ahmed Tinubu wants to take?

The crisis in Niger is something that some of us consider to be a crisis in Nigeria because we have been very close in terms of our relations with Niger. And we have interacted, inter-married with Niger and it was only yesterday or the day before yesterday I learnt that even the man who overthrew Bazoum, his wife is from Kangiwa, in Kebbi. So, you can see the complications that we have. I think the only mistake that, in fact, let me say ECOWAS made, was giving that ultimatum without going back to consult with all the stakeholders in the various countries. A venture of this nature, you cannot undertake it simply because you are the head of state, particularly we here in Nigeria. I mean, there is nobody in about eight states that is not in one way or the other affiliated to Niger Republic. Like I said, there are some people who are Nigeriens, they schooled in Nigeria, they grew up in Nigeria and today, they are Nigerians, although they are from Niger. They are in key posts in Nigerian system. So, you don’t just go and… Okay, no problem. Tinubu is the Chairman of ECOWAS, yes; he is supposed to be the mouthpiece of ECOWAS. After discussing this issue of going to war, they should not go public on that one. What they should do is to go back to their various countries, get consent, because no head of state has his country in his pocket. There are bound to be certain problems that they might have overlooked, but if they had gone back to their various states, consulted with all the stakeholders there, have the feeling within the population, their individual state, what is the situation in so far as that action is concerned. That wasn’t done. If it was done, the embarrassment that Tinubu got in the Senate, he wouldn’t have got that because he would have known what the score is in his national assembly. So, he probably would not have made that. If they had all gone to consult, they would not agree on that statement of ultimatum. Number two, personally, through my experience, if we go to war, it will end up to be a proxy war. It will no longer be our own war, ECOWAS. It will be a theatre where the West and the East are going to play through their proxies and that does not augur well for Africa, and particularly for West Africa because colonialism separated us, but we all are conjoined. All the West African countries, they are conjoined. You cannot separate them. So, to now bring a proxy war will be very dangerous for the sub-region. Last week, Putin met with the interim president of Burkina Faso or rather, it is everybody’s knowledge. And ECOWAS, everybody knows. He is talking that the U.S., he is talking to all those countries that profess democracy. But for goodness sake, in the ECOWAS sub-region, how many heads of state are maintaining that principle of democracy as it is supposed to be? How many of them did not come through the coup or by manipulating the constitution to continue ruling? And this is another coup, except it has been sort of blessed by so-called election. So, you see, a lot of these countries in our sub-region were products of illegality, but the best thing that can happen now is since the coupists in Niger have agreed to talk to ECOWAS, we have to go back to what has always been the practise – settle them, discuss with them, first of all, secure the security of Bazoum, now kicked out because there is no way they will hand over Niger to Bazoum back again. They will not do that. Whichever way you look at it, they will not do that. At best, it is for ECOWAS, AU, including well-wishers of our sub-region to give us the support to push the junta to agree to stay for a minimum time that they can prepare to set the country for election. This is what they have done in Mali, this is what they are trying to do in Burkina Faso, and this is what they are trying to do in Guinea. These are countries that right now, they are under military rule. And there are coups there. Now, the fact that we, Nigerians, are bordering Niger does not give us license to say that the responsibility of ECOWAS, we are going to take. Yes, Tinubu is talking for ECOWAS, but the whole of ECOWAS is looking up to Nigeria. They think we have the resources to be able to execute a war. We do not have because we should not rob Nigeria of resources that are direly needed to attend to key, acute problem that we have internally. And to any leader, being president, being prime minister or whatever, it is his country first; his people first. If anything is going to impede the progress of his people, he should not go that way because anything outside this country that will take away our resources will be robbing other sectors of our country of the resources to try to make life better for them. We have got our own internal problems, particularly security and we are taking the security bodies that we have, part of them to go and start another war in another country. What do you do about security? Boko Haram and bandits have been rampaging in this country for years. We have the military and all the security agencies; we have not been able to contain them. So, how do we now in all honesty, decide to go to war? With all the members of the ECOWAS that are saying go to war, what can they offer? What will be their contribution? Already, one or two countries said they are not prepared to send their troops. So, why should we do that, particularly, we are the closest to these people? Like I said in my interview with Arise Television, I said, look, let people realise that we are more or less one people. Since you and I, we are one people, we are Nigerians, you come from a different tribe and I come from a different tribe, maybe our own faith is also different.

Don’t you think it is because we are one people that President Tinubu wants to ensure that democracy remains in Niger and that is why he is trying to take the action?

Yes, we are one people, but at the same time, they are a sovereign state, recognised internationally by everybody be it the UN, AU, EU; whichever international organisation, they recognised Niger as a sovereign country and as an entity. We may be the same people, but we are not the same country. So, you see, in fact, at the end of the day, the ECOWAS cannot even go to war even if they want to. There is a provision in the UN charter and some protocol that has been signed by…. No country can invade any sovereign nation regardless, unless the issue is being stretched in the UN Security Council.

In the case of Gambia where Yahaya Jammeh refused to relinquish power, ECOWAS activated the Standby Force…?

(Cuts in) Of course, we activated it. Do you know why? Jammeh’s case is different. Jammeh went into election, he lost and he accepted he lost and then, I think two, three days later, he said no, he was not leaving. And when you look at Gambia, you can’t compare Gambia to Niger. But in any case, the man was forced to leave because he has already accepted that he lost in the election and congratulated his opponent. Yes, you can also say the same about Sao Tome. There was a coup, Obasanjo took the president back to Sao Tome. But he did not do that until after negotiations and discussions had taken place on ground in Sao Tome with Nigerian mission there and they got the go ahead from the rebels.

In that case, why don’t you see Bazoum returning to power?

It is because the coupists are not prepared to leave. The coupists have taken on. In fact, they have created a problem in our sub-region. Already, they were three being run by the military and already, the Russians have come in and they are also on their way into Niger or maybe, I am sure they are talking to them. So, Sao Tome and Gambia, they are two different issues. But here, for us, it is very, very difficult – the closure of the border and the sanctions that were imposed is biting both Niger and Nigeria. Maybe somebody in Port Harcourt or somebody in Lagos does not even feel it, but all the states bordering Niger are feeling it because they trade between them. There are so many trucks lying in about a mile or so now in the border. A lot of them are carrying perishable goods to Niger. And these are our people and on the other side, the same thing. So, we are both losing. Our people are suffering from either side, so the normal thing that is happening when there is a coup and it is very difficult for the coupists to give in because they don’t know what will come after. What has been the practice so far is to now swallow our pride, talk to them, sit down, alright look, you are now the de facto leaders of this country, maybe not de jure, but de facto. Fine, we have to deal with you, no we don’t like the idea, but we have to deal with you to see how best we can go into constitutional order. How long? That is where…

Although, the junta has agreed to dialogue with ECOWAS, don’t you think if we continue in this direction, we may have more coups in the sub-region?

Look, whether you like it or not, so long as we have bad governance in our countries, we cannot rule out coups. What is the situation of Nigerians today? They are crying. It is not because of Tinubu; Tinubu has got nothing to do with it. But over a period of time, we did not do what we were supposed to do in terms of improvement of governance to our people; giving some succour to our people, improving their livelihoods, making them comfortable in their countries. So long as we do not make sure that we make our people first, tackle corruption and block all the ways where our resources are being squandered, because you have to block them so that we can now invest in the welfare of our people. That is what we need. Unless you have good governance and people are satisfied, those people we elect are doing the right thing, you cannot rule out this kind of thing happening.

Looking at what is going on in the sub-region, are you scared we may have a similar situation in Nigeria?

I am not very sure Nigeria will do because we have come a long way from that time and I do not pray for that to happen. What I pray for is; may God Almighty show Tinubu and those people in government, the way to do the right things so that our people should start getting something that will now make them contented with the way that they are being governed.

Coming down home, what is your impression about the 2023 general election?

I don’t want to make comment on something which is subjudice. I mean, they are all in court. So, you cannot say I am with this one or that one. But whichever the outcome by the courts, we are a country that is being governed by the rule of law and we have to accept whatever is the outcome.

Nigeria’s democracy, from what we saw during the last election, people say it is not growing. What is wrong with Nigeria?

What is wrong with you? Nigeria is a collection of all of us, not one individual. So, each one of us bear the responsibility to give his contribution to make Nigeria good. We are all guilty – those of us that were in public service, that had a stint in the public service and those of us that are in the businesses. But the poor fellow down there is the one that is paying for all the squandering that is going around. You see, you cannot say this is this man’s fault or whatever, but the leadership that emerge in any election. Regardless how bad people think election is, once at the end of the day the courts say these are the people, we have to give them all the support to make sure they do the right thing and also, to criticise them. Also, they have to now accept criticisms that will come out from the general public. In whatever they do, if it goes wrong, we should come and tell them.

What is your view about the coming of President Tinubu and steps taken so far since assumption of office, particularly the removal of fuel subsidy and harmonisation of foreign exchange?

Look, this is something that is inevitable, but with a caveat. Not the way he went about it. Before you make a decision on issue of this nature that affects every single household, you have to make sure you have already sorted out what you are going to do to make it less harsh. That is why I said I feel sorry for him because he came in, he was not an insider in the last administration, and therefore, he can never know the depth of the rot that is in the system. So, he should have taken time to study, to know what the problems are in the system and then, prepare the country and prepare the kind of palliative, put it in place, let it start operating, see how things are moving before you can now do it bit by bit.  But he has not studied the situation. He might have, on the face of it, but from what is coming out, particularly when they picked Emefiele, what is being revealed is something that in my wildest dream, I will never believe anything of that happened or can happen in this country. I can never believe. If all the things that have been rolled out are true about Emefiele’s activities, then I am very sorry for Nigeria. I am very sorry for Nigeria. But still, hope is not lost. If Tinubu happens to continue, all the legal issues are settled, we will all have to come and regardless of the opposition. I have always been a PDP man and I will die a PDP man because I was one of the founding fathers. So, I am a PDP man and I will always be in PDP. But that does not mean I will be atloggerheads  with whoever is in government. My number one duty is to make sure that I assist whichever way I can to see that things are done for the welfare and goodness of this country. Regardless, I don’t belong to APC. In fact, I have never belonged to any party since PDP because I was the first deputy national chairman of the PDP. So, anybody that is dancing around – because somebody I saw on the television said PDP has been the cradle of all politicians or 90 per cent of the politicians in Nigeria today came out of PDP. So, my friend, that is where we are.

Taking a look at the sufferings of Nigerians, what can the government do to ameliorate the situation?

The first thing that the government should do is to go quickly; sprint, not even quick, run as far as they can to block all the ways where the nation’s treasure is being siphoned. Block all. There are cases like Emefiele’s. It is not him alone. Even some of the people who have now gone through the Senate, there are cases against them. Alright? Let them fish out some of those, take away whatever they have taken and give it back to the government. Look, if they go out and recover government’s funds that were looted, billions and billions of money is going to be collected.

Why do you think former President Muhammadu Buhari was not able to put an end to corruption in the country?

That one is…, that was his mantra. But let me tell you, in the history of political development as far as party politics is concerned, there has never been a time that this country was looted as much as the last eight years before Tinubu came in because it is only now that things are coming out. When you are in control of government, you sit on this thing because you try to block all the ways that information goes out to people, if you are doing the wrong thing. But even if you are doing the right thing in the government, you open the whole thing. Let everybody come and see what you are doing. But this is why I am saying Tinubu made a mistake by removing the subsidy even before he knows what the effect is going to be. It is now that he is seeing what the effect is. If today we go for an election, if they say there is a rerun, I doubt if he can make it, simply because of that particular decision that he made because it has already turned people, a lot of Nigerians against him. But it is not his fault. That is why I said I am sorry for him because he came and found a situation on the ground and he thinks that by just fiat, say remove subsidy, things will be okay. All these things, it takes time to study what damage had been done in the last eight years before he came in. He won’t be able to know what damage it is until you really make an effort to sit down with those that know, both in the government and the security agencies, to come and give you all the dossier on each and every sector of our economy.